(no subject)

[ljgeoff]

Ok, that was just weird.

towersofgrey just sent me a scene that I'd already pictured, but hadn't talked about. Maybe it's just really obvious that the story should flow that way, I dunno.

Mike and I had an interesting conversation about maleness and femaleness. Any feedback or such would be interesting.

In a post today, towersofgrey wrote about male and female characters and story arc. I'd made a point that one women are perceived as unwhole without a man, but not visa-versa.

Mike said that might be true, but what defined the difference to him was that women have a different toolkit for problem solving than men. To grossly overgeneralize, women see the connections better, and try to rock the boat less -- they take longer to assess and they get everyone to cooperate. Men's assessment is quicker but less deep. They go for the obvious fix and don't worry as much about whose feelings might get hurt. They would rather work in hierarchies and assign tasks than cooperate.

Mike said, "Now, take you for an example. A lot of guys think that you're kinda butch, 'cause you're really not afraid of much. But, I tell ya, you really think like a woman.

Over in another forum, we're talking about epic heroes and heroes in general. I love heroes -- someone who must right the wrongs, fight the bad guy, sacrifice themself for the greater good. NomNomNOM. So how are female and male heroes different?

Comments

[towersofgrey.livejournal.com]

See and this is what is bugging me, for me, and maybe this is my limited reading, but most of the epic fantasy female heroes can only express their heroic virtue by sacrificing their life for their one true love. Which, come on.

Whereas epic fantasy men can sacrifice their lives for abstract principles.

And I don't think that either should be limited. Again, there are exceptions, but really, that is the genre standard. Pretty helpless princess throws herself in harm's way to save the prince. Ugh, ugh, ugh. Women do more than that. And women have more than love of her lover. She has love of her children, love of her community, love of a way of life. But you rarely see the woman being able to sacrifice for that.

But I'll stop spewing and try to answer your question.

I think female heroes, except in Urban Fantasy, achieve their heroic aims without direct conflict until the very end. Male heroes are in constant direct conflict with other people, the environment, and the moral environment from the first moment. Of course as soon as I post this, I'll think of all the exceptions and a different answer. Good question, thanks for this post :D

[ljgeoff.livejournal.com]

Have you read George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire (http://www.amazon.com/Game-Thrones-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553573403) series? Martin plays with some of the stereotypes that you mention. It's good stuff.

[ljgeoff.livejournal.com]

Also, take a look at C. J. Cherryh's Morgaine Saga (http://www.amazon.com/Morgaine-Saga-Daw-Book-Collectors/dp/0886778778).